Q&A: Phumzile Sitole

The actor talks theatre, Orange Is The New Black, The Good Fight and more...

Image Credit: Phumzile Sitole

Phumzile Sitole is a South African actor who broke into US TV via The Good Fight and Orange Is The New Black. More recently, she played Captain Ndoye in an episode of the third season of Star Trek: Discovery. I had the chance to talk to her about her acting start, how she found the switch from theatre to screen work and the world of Star Trek…

When did you know you wanted to pursue acting?

I feel like there are so many different answers to that question! The worst one for you to sit through and listen to, the obnoxious one is, “since I was a kid! In front of my family!” But the truth is I actually started off as a dancer before graduating high school. But by the time I hit university, I was entered into a very conservancy-type programme, similar to my MFA I did in New York. Yet the undergrad time in South Africa was just as stringent, they auditioned people and only accepted about 15 or 16 people across the country. So from high school on, I knew that acting was my full career path, but I think the early kid days were just wanting to be the centre of attention in my family. I was performer-based!

Did you act in school plays?

Oh yes! I did a lot of school plays from when I was young. It’s also interesting, because I went to a private school in South Africa, and given our history, I was one out of two black girls in my grade and navigating that experience. But since that time, entertainment was my escape. I was heavily involved in after school drama programmes and school plays and all of that. 

Would you say theatre is still your first love?

Yes. Now I’ve learned how not to put them against each other and be so subjective about them I want to say I’m initially a theatre actor. We do a lot of theatre in South Africa and that’s the one thing I’ll always go back to; I love doing Shakespeare, there’s something about the stage and how expansive and big you can get to be that is extremely addictive and appealing to me. But I also found what I loved in the opposite, in the small details of being in front of a lens and knowing that your audience is actually way bigger, your audience is bigger and closer. I love trying to balance those two worlds within me. I would say I love them both just as deeply as the other, but theatre is definitely something I will always go back and touch base with because it gives me a really huge playground and I love to play!

Was starting on The Good Fight a weird new experience for you?

Absolutely. I worked as Delroy Lindo’s assistant on the show and he was a phenomenal actor, he’s a veteran. I came in and saw that my first scene was all with him and I was, like, “I should just go home, this is terrifying!” It was my first time on set, and luckily my first call, they were doing a scene where I just walk in with something for someone, so I wasn’t speaking. I just got to learn everything, I was on full alert mode. I was learning what ‘first-team” was, what “second-team” was. I had a stand-in who would be in my place so I could go to my dressing room. What is happening!? I got to know the AD [Assitant Director] and what the AD really does and who is getting us into place and calling positions. I was a sponge. And then my second day going back to set, I had my scene with Delroy and I’d figured out how to do the marks, don’t look on the ground! Delroy was very patient with me and he was inquisitive about me, asking about my having only recently graduated and being on set and he could tell that I needed the comfort. He was generous in his information that he had to give and it was a really lovely experience and a great set to be on. 

How was your experience on Orange Is The New Black?

I always have this analogy that when I joined, they were five seasons in and it’s like going to visit someone’s family for Thanksgiving and you’re not family, but you’re welcome. And they were extremely welcoming. Especially as I came in as part of a “villainous gang” and the main characters were never going to like me in the actual show anyway, but it was just interesting being on set, but then being off-camera with people who were extremely humble, extremely generous and kind, yet veterans at what they do. I mean, Kate Mulgrew, who has also worked on Star Trek, is one of my favourite actors and she comes in and she’s so professional, off-book [working without having to consult the script], she was inspirational to watch on set, she was everything I want to be on set, to come in having made my choices, and have fun. Orange was really good, it was a privilege to get to do so many episodes and have my character grow in different ways. And also I learned so much more about the prison system in this country and how complicated and twisted it is! And then being an all-female cast and mostly female crew and production team, it was really inspirational. I learned a lot. 

As an actor with a theatre background, do you find yourself going off-book on sets?

Absolutely. I’m lucky, I learn lines very easily and I have a photographic memory. It’s quite upsetting to my fellow actors! I can’t start to play until I’m off-book, I just feel very disjointed and it has to come thought by thought for me. I do aim to be off-book as soon as possible. Definitely, in some cases, they will change lines on set, and that we roll with, but luckily I can go to the dressing room while they’re changing the set and get it in my head fast enough. I don’t know where it came from and I’m not going to question it! 

How aware of Star Trek were you?

In South Africa we’re familiar with Star Trek and Star Wars, not to say that they’re the same thing in the slightest, but in terms of sci-fi, we’re aware it’s such a big thing. But growing up, I wasn’t that into it, it’s not something I’d watch. But when I got the audition, I started watching episodes and I said, “I’ve seen this, I know that character, that face” and so maybe there’s a part of my memory where I don’t know how much I actually knew. I knew so many terms like the Federation, but I didn’t remember having been a fan growing up, it just imprinted naturally. But I think Star Trek: Discovery is a really beautiful show and I’ve come to really appreciate the Star Trek world in general, it’s quite great. 

I also like how – I can’t compare it to the Star Treks that have gone before – every episode is like a film and they all take me through such a journey that I’m not sure I have the emotional capacity to watch another episode! I find it powerful in that sense that they manage to cover a lot of ground in the time that they have per episode and I find it inspirational. 

Star Trek dialogue can almost be Shakespearian with its specific terms. Did you engage with that?

Yeah! In working on that set and having all the different words flow through my body, I thought, ‘oh, this is the expanse that I searched for in theatre, this is the imaginative work that I so enjoy to play in.’ Something unlocks in me. That’s not to shame so-called kitchen sink TV, there’s just something profound at Star Trek being a completely made up thing that we all are buying into. I remember the day they had me pull up… Captain Ndoye had to search for something and I had to type something that was going to pop up in front of me, so when the guy who is in charge of these visuals was, “as long as it’s not right in front of your face, we’ll fill it in.” So it’s me playing with the air and then seeing it materialise, I was, like, “that is the coolest thing ever!” I just get a kid out of how expansive the world is because of that. I love that.

How was it dealing with the effects?

It was definitely my first experience with that sort of technology, and that’s what made me so curious. Even when I had to transport out at the end, I had to touch this little dial. I said, “so, do I double tap, do I wave my hand?” And that’s the beauty of being on that set because it’s so collaborative. Jonathan [Frakes] said, “just do what feels right and we’ll make it make sense.” So it was my first time in it, but it felt very much like I was able to do it, they made you feel very capable of working with those things. They were happy to fill in the blanks where needed. 

Image Credit: CBS All Access

Was it fun working with Jonathan Frakes as the director?

It was so nice to be around someone who loves their job! He’s actually very good as his job and he loves it. He loves actors, he keeps saying he’s a terrible actor, which is not true, I think! I had to do a scene with him when I first come up on the viewscreen and it was just me in the studio that day because the viewscreen was just a camera. He was doing all the lines that Doug Jones would have been doing later on. And I couldn’t believe I got to act with Jonathan Frakes. He’s so kind and also very generous in our exchanges afterwards. By far, he’s the best director I’ve worked with. He just makes every single person on set, crew, cast, feel welcome. He made you feel like you could do it, he’s an incredible collaborator. 

Is it true that you were thinking about stopping acting before you landed the Discovery role? 

I was never actually going to throw in the towel, but I was in a place in my life where it would be easier to go back to South Africa for two years and take a break from acting. It was just really hard and I think coming off the steam of Orange, which was really great, and not landing anything substantial that I cared about enough, it’s the same thing that I think every actor goes through but at that time when I auditioned for Discovery, I was probably in the lowest point I had felt since I moved to New York, and so for me to have booked it was literally, “oh, no, I’m staying.” It felt like a big sign to say, “you’re fine.” It’s incredible and I feel really grateful. 

What’s next for you? 

There are things coming up. I am going home for a month to visit but I will be shooting a feature film there with a friend of mine who is directing and this incredible company and I look forward to doing that and visiting my family and then I’ll be back trucking along!